T Polyphilus ([info]paradoxosalpha) wrote,
@ 2009-03-23 18:46:00
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Ali Sloper
I have a nice, large (2" or so) rose-cross pin that I wear on the lapel of my overcoat these days. For some reason, this insignia prompts strangers to blithely interrogate me about my religious status--usually while I'm preoccupied with, say, grocery shopping. Such conversations have become gradually more blunt as the exercise has been repeated, reaching a point of near-perfection on the train this afternoon.

Q. (out of the blue, without the merest hello) Are you a chaplain?

A. (flatly) No, I'm a bishop.

Q. A Lutheran bishop?

A. (with careful diction) No, a bishop of the Gnostic Catholic Church.

Q. Agnostic Catholic? That sounds like an oxymoron to me.

A. No, not Agnostic, Gnostic.

Q. Never heard of it. What's the difference?

A. (gravely) Historians typically consider Gnosticism to be the oldest and most terrible of Christian heresies.

Q. Um.

A. Good-bye! (The train has reached my stop.)

(38 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]azael93
2009-03-24 12:18 am UTC (link)
Near-perfection. You, sire, have reached the fever pitch of perfection.

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[info]ihateswine
2009-03-24 12:33 am UTC (link)
Q. (out of the blue, without the merest hello) Are you a chaplain?
A. (flatly) No, I'm a bishop.
Q. A Lutheran bishop?
A. (with careful diction) No, a bishop of the Gnostic Catholic Church.
Q. Agnostic Catholic? That sounds like an oxymoron to me.
A. No, not Agnostic, Gnostic.

Strike "Bishop" and insert "Deacon" and I've had this conversation many times.

Your comeback is better than mine. I usually just say that Gnosticism is more like what Jesus actually taught, as opposed to what Christianity teaches.

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[info]paradoxosalpha
2009-03-24 01:04 pm UTC (link)
Hm. Like the true teachings of the genuine Easter Bunny?

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[info]samael418
2009-03-24 02:47 pm UTC (link)
lol

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[info]divineserpent
2009-03-25 02:25 am UTC (link)
lol

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ok but..
[info]frater_pfdv
2009-03-24 01:03 am UTC (link)
what's your Thetan level?

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Re: ok but..
[info]paradoxosalpha
2009-03-24 01:18 am UTC (link)
I keep trying to get my Thetan level, but it always goes off-kilter.

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[info]kakurowski
2009-03-24 01:26 am UTC (link)
That's great! it reminds of [info]richard_kaczyn's big head story.

http://richard-kaczyn.livejournal.com/115621.html

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[info]paradoxosalpha
2009-03-24 01:06 pm UTC (link)
I remember that story. Yes, there must be a common ability among the rationally impaired to sense the pecular pstench of the initiate.

In fairness, some people just say, "I like your pin."

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[info]foxsong
2009-03-24 03:08 am UTC (link)
Brilliant. :-)

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[info]lionserpent
2009-03-24 03:09 am UTC (link)
I've always enjoyed your whit. Good job freaking the straights!

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[info]thykaaba
2009-03-24 03:33 am UTC (link)
What [info]lionserpent said :D

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[info]iamsquid
2009-03-24 04:16 am UTC (link)
Ha!

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[info]lillith156
2009-03-24 06:16 am UTC (link)
That was fabulous... thank you for relating the story!

Evil hairy Gnostics have to stick together.

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[info]najwa_maryam
2009-03-24 06:16 am UTC (link)
Well polished!

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Should I ever have this happen...
[info]drawn_n_qrtered
2009-03-24 06:34 am UTC (link)
I don't really wish that it would, but I certainly see how it can, I have plenty of witty ammunition to fall back on.

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[info]obsidian_blade
2009-03-24 02:14 pm UTC (link)
Brilliant.

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[info]borbor_chan
2009-03-24 06:51 pm UTC (link)
lolz

incidentally it doesn't rank as the most "persistent" of the heresies - that honor goes to Donatism. Unless you consider Manichaeism, Catharism, the Bogomils, etc. "Gnostic"...

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[info]paradoxosalpha
2009-03-24 07:06 pm UTC (link)
Of course, many do consider those all to be extrusions of a continuing Gnosticism (including our founding Past Patriarch T Valentinus).

And you'll note that I did a powerful bit of hedging with that word "typically." Still, as I recently had occasion to note in a different thread, I tire of people treating Gnosticism--which was for more than a millennium nothing other than an evaluation of profound heresy--as if it were something sweet and inoffensive.

I recently and for the first time read a translation of the "institution narrative" of the Borborite Eucharist according to Epiphanius. Wow!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
let's hear it for libertine gnosis!
[info]borbor_chan
2009-03-24 07:28 pm UTC (link)
oh yes that's a very hot one. Makes Clement's Carpocratians look taaaaaaaame. (Note parallels in Liber Legis perhaps?)

also frg. of the Coptic Asclepius from NHC VI is very nice, esp. compared to the Latin.

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[info]obsidian_blade
2009-03-25 12:58 am UTC (link)
The last reference intrigued me, so I did a little googling... is the referenced material contained in chapters XXV and XXVI of the Frank Williams translation of the Panarion?

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[info]paradoxosalpha
2009-03-25 01:23 am UTC (link)
I had in mind the passage centered on Panarion XXVI.8.2-3.

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[info]obsidian_blade
2009-03-25 01:59 am UTC (link)
Thank you!

Off I go with mirth.

(Btw do you know of any online resource to find this in? I've been unsuccessful in hunting it down thus far.)

Edited at 2009-03-25 02:00 am UTC

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[info]paradoxosalpha
2009-03-25 02:40 am UTC (link)
Online? Nope; I think a research library is your best bet. There's a chance that one might let it circulate by ILL. As you've doubtless noticed, it's a Brill book that goes for $160 and up.

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[info]obsidian_blade
2009-03-25 02:44 am UTC (link)
The library it is then!

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[info]lucypher93
2009-03-24 08:00 pm UTC (link)
Ya know I really have started to hate trying to explain my religious station, especially my personal spiritual beliefs to the uninitiated; and even in some rare cases to the initiated.

I guess to paraphrase Jimmeny Cricket...
I should let my subConscience be my Guide
and in the case of the profane...
I should let my Silence be my Guard

Ahh...It soo rare that you get a pleasent or entertaining topic of conversation from most of them, and when I do it's almost exclusively within the realm of "flirting"...I'm sure those who know me can tell that is the external sign of the internal feelings, and uses, I have for the uninitiated; and in some rare cases the initiated...but perhaps it is better for me to let Silence be my Guard.

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[info]paradoxosalpha
2009-03-25 02:48 am UTC (link)
I had a great conversation with the lady sitting next to me on the airplane last week. I've certainly had my share of discomfort at trying to explain my orientation to strangers for one reason or another. But as it happens, [info]thiebes and I were chatting in Salem about the importance for initiates to develop their own unique "elevator raps" about the Law, and how it would behoove local bodies to foster this capability with some sort of "promulgation workshop."

I'm only too aware that you have already given this topic some real reflection, and I hope to explore it with you more in the coming weeks.

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[info]solarmyth
2009-03-24 09:40 pm UTC (link)
...and the other Gnostics consider US to be heretics!

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[info]paradoxosalpha
2009-03-24 09:45 pm UTC (link)
True enough! Horrible, occultist subverters of their pristine traditions!

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[info]00goddess
2009-03-25 08:20 am UTC (link)
Awesome answer :)

I wonder why people feel justified asking strangers very personal questions.

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[info]paradoxosalpha
2009-03-25 01:00 pm UTC (link)
I don't think it's unwarrantedly "personal" to ask me whether I'm a religious official, and in the case of an affirmative, to inquire about the institution I represent. I just think that--when it's obviously a matter of gratifying personal curiosity--it often seems to be done somewhat rudely, and that does puzzle me.

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[info]00goddess
2009-03-25 02:34 pm UTC (link)
Well, I do think "What's your religion?" is a personal question, and strange when someone is a total stranger. And you're right, it usually is asked somewhat rudely, which colors the overall experience.

I have been known, though, to earnestly ask overly aggressive young men if they are Christian, and when they reply in the affirmative, I smile sweetly and explain that oh, I never date Christians.

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[info]paradoxosalpha
2009-03-25 02:57 pm UTC (link)
Ah, but "What's your religion?" wasn't the original question.

I was asked (out of evident reaction to an display on my coat) if I were a religious official. As it happens, I am. And so my religious orientation is not a private matter. I am an official representative of my religious body.

Needless to say, an anonymous encounter on a rush hour train is not the best setting for a respectful conversation about religious concerns, and that's why I handled the exchange the way I did.

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[info]00goddess
2009-03-25 03:46 pm UTC (link)
Ah, but "What's your religion?" wasn't the original question.

oh, I had the impression that it had been a question in other conversations. You mentioned being interrogated about your religious status... I think I was seeing a different use of the word "status".

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[info]scorpionis
2009-03-25 02:01 pm UTC (link)
LOL!

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[info]minerva5
2009-03-25 02:43 pm UTC (link)
Well said!

I like shocking people with my responses about religion and other hot button topics.

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[info]toby_rethinks
2009-03-26 11:15 pm UTC (link)
Hahahahaha!

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Excellente!
[info]alzm
2009-03-27 03:23 pm UTC (link)
Hey wanna be my buddy?
I like your style, found you through Thiebes.
Check out some of the older alzm material for alchemy on the stone if you are into alchemy like quite obviously me ofcourse :)
Greets from a fellow heretic...
ATen here i cum.

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